Wrestling Clothesline Interview with Kevin Sullivan ~ by Alan Wojcik ~ September 27, 2024

KEVIN SULLIVAN is a legend in professional wrestling. He has worked for the legendary Championship Wrestling of Florida as well as NWA/WCW, SMW, TWA/ECW and in hundreds of nations around the world. Mr. Sullivan honored me by sitting down for this interview hours before he and Abdullah the Butcher bled all over the Born to Ride Saloon in Ybor City, Florida on September 27, 2024 at IPW Hardcore’s “7th Avenue Slaughter” show.

Alan Wojcik: When did you first come to Florida?

Kevin Sullivan: September 1972. Eddie Graham was running the company. I had just wrapped up a thirteen month run in Tennessee.

AW: At what point did Abudadein become your manager?

KS: He came in around 1983. The Abudadein was my idea. He was a mystically character that had never been seen and he made his in the flesh appearance in 1984. (Note: For more on Abudadein, visit his site www.snakemaster.com )

AW: According to a shoot interview with another legend, Chris Champion, he modeled his last character SIN after your satanic character. How much of that was gimmick and how much was you?

KS: That’s a hard question. I think the character and the personality were similar at the time. Looking back on it right now, as with lots of wrestlers the personality might have taken over the character.

AW: What was the genesis of your feud with Dusty Rhodes?

KS: I have great memories of Dusty. One time I did an interview saying that there was no such thing as an “American Dream.” That the American dream was actually an American nightmare, having two kids and scraping by not knowing where your next meal is coming from was not the American dream. The interview was so strong that Dusty, unplanned, came out and did a rebuttal.

AW: In CWF you were interviewed by “the dean of wrestling announcers” Gordon Solie. Any memories you wish to hare with the fans?

KS: Gordon was so good because he took wrestling as a shoot. There was never any tongue in cheek stuff. (Kevin does a Gordon Solie impression) “Sullivan hit a vertical suplex and someone has to stop this maniacal man, whether its Dusty, we should get behind Dusty and Blackjack Mulligan because there is evil in that man’s mind.” Gordon was the best there ever was.

AW: What led you from CWF to NWA in the late 1980’s?

KS: Dusty became the booker for NWA/WCW. I was booking in Florida and we folded up after Vince McMahon expanded WWF.

AW: What led to the formation of the Varsity Club (Mike Rotunda, Rick Steiner and Steve Williams?)

KS: That was strictly Dusty. I had three college athletes and what was wrong with this picture? They were taking heat and ideas and delivery from this guy in the black robe. They were clean cut college guys and I had the robe and long blond hair.

AW: How did you come to be the booker for NWA/WCW?

KS: I had booked Florida and Hawaii. So I had a run for a while and it was fun.

AW: How did you go from NWA/WCW to Smokey Mountain Wrestling run by Jim Cornette?

KS: I left WCW when Jim Herd was in charge. I went to Japan and Jimmy called me to come to SMW. I have great admiration for Jim Cornette. I think if he had money he could have held out longer and gotten some bigger towns to work in like Chattanooga, Lexington and Louisville.

AW: What led you to be part of TWA/ECW and any memories of Paul E. Dangerously AKA Paul Heyman?

KS: I broke Paul E. into the business. I put the phone in his hands and told him to stop wearing sneakers and put a sport coat on. I have been Paul’s mentor and I am very proud of Paul.

AW: What led you back to WCW in the 90’s?

KS: Money. Show me the money.

AW: Were you a fan of the Evad/Dave Sullivan gimmick?

KS: That’s a hard question because I wasn’t a fan of it but he tried as hard as anyone I have ever seen to get something over. Hogan and I tried as hard as we could. Might have been the wrong time and wrong place for it.

AW: What was your reaction when Hulk Hogan came to WCW?

KS: I am a big Hulk fan and wrestling wouldn’t be around without him. Ask a non-wrestling fan to name a wrestler chances are they will say Hulk Hogan. He is bigger than wrestling. He is as big as Muhammad Ali.

AW: You were a tag partner of Cactus Jack in a feud with the Nasty Boys. What was that feud like including a “Broad Street Bully match” at Slamboree 1994?

KS: On that night I wish someone had smartened up the Nasty Boys that wrestling isn’t 100% real. Mick and I were fighting for our lives. I got cut by chairs, tables and lighting fixtures. That was one of the best tag matches I have ever been in. that match made people think of putting hardcore in to WCW. I don’t need to say how good Mick is but the Nasty’s were great that night.

AW: Have you read Mick Foley’s two books and what did you think of them?

KS: I though the books were great. He flattered me by saying that WCW wouldn’t have been where it was without my influence.

AW: What led to you wrestling Mr. T at Starrcade 1994?

KS: Hulk asked me to do him a favor and I said certainly. Lots of people asked me why I did it. It wasn’t David Arquette winning the WCW world title. Mr. T had been in with Piper and he had been in with some other guys. If Piper could do so could I.

AW: Were you a fan of the New World Order gimmick?

KS: I was. Lots of people think that was the thing that tipped the scales in the WCW/WWF war. That was the thing that blew the roof off but WCW had beaten Vince in the ratings for about six months. Not by much but they were beating him. Many people forget Hogan was the key reason it blew through the roof. About two months before it I talked to Hulk when the people were booing him out of buildings. One night in Chicago he walked out in black and Gene Okerlund thought it was because of the outfit. People like to tear down the heroes they build up. I went to Hulk and told him it was time and it will be the biggest turn in the business and it was. The fans are weird. Two weeks before Hulk and Rock wrestled at Wrestlemania I told him they were going to boo Rock out of the building and he agreed with me. Like I said he is Ali, the fans don’t want to see the hero go down. We want to remember our heroes as they were in their hey day. I have to take my hat of to the rock for not falling apart as Hulk was being cheered.

AW: At the same time the New World Order was taking off “Stunning” Steve Austin was becoming “Stone Cold” Steve Austin. Were your surprised?

KS: Sometimes things work out for a reason. In WCW Steve was a great wrestler and a performer but he was not” Stunning” Steve Austin. The character of “Stone Cold” is Steve Austin.

AW: We have discussed Hulk Hogan, what was it like to wrestle “Hollywood” Hogan?

KS: I have wrestled everyone from Andre the Giant to Ric Flair but wrestling Hogan was the biggest for me. I have been and currently am a wrestling fan. I don’t like the phrase “mark” because I am a wrestling fan so that makes me the biggest “mark” out there. I marked out being in the ring with Hulk Hogan. I have two pictures in my gym. One is me and Ali the other is me and Hulk.

AW: I have asked this question of several people. Who do you feel is to blame for the demise of WCW, Eric Bischoff, Vince Russo or AOL/Time Warner?

KS: AOL/Time Warner and Eric Bischoff‘s bosses.

AW: When WCW was bought by the WWE was there ever talk of you going the WWE?

KS: I was approached about right after the Rock/Hogan match but things didn’t work out.

AW: You had many stables under your control. They included the Varsity Club, Sullivan’s Slaughterhouse, Sullivan’s House of Animals, the Dungeon of Doom and the Faces of Fear. Which one as your favorite?

KS: All were great in their own way. I look back with fond memories of the Varsity Club. I saw three men mature into great talents. Rick Steiner carried that gimmick. We were all secondary characters to Rick. We were the Three Stooges including Shemp. He was Curly and like the Stooges we were second banana to Steiner.

AW: You mentioned you are a wrestling fan. What do you think of the current product put out by the WWE?

KS: I think that they need competition. When you’re the only game in town you get lazy. It’s ironic with the younger talent left WCW they left because they felt the older talent was holding them down. Now they are the older guys in WWE and they are hearing the same thing from the younger WWE talent. I really think Vince needs competition because it brings out the best in Vince.

AW: Speaking of competition do you think something like Ring of Honor, NWA: Total Nonstop Acton or some other group could rise up and challenge WWE?

KS: The only way they can do it is with some big money backer behind them. Salaries, travel and the TV production will need the flow of money to battle the WWE.

AW: You recently refereed a match for NWA: TNA. What did you think of their show and what do you think of a weekly PPV show?

KS: I thought the talent was great, they have lots of young guys intermingled with some veterans. Whether a weekly PPV can survive without a TV show to drive it I don’t know. I know what they are trying to do, the Monday night in Memphis or the Sunday shows like CWF had in Orlando. But both groups had a TV show to drive it. It’s hard to get the characters over in a weekly PPV format. I think surviving isn’t the main thing; it is making it a viable product to the fans. It’s hard for me because they just came into my area on Dish Network. I never hear people in the gym talking about it. If they had grabbed Goldberg or Hogan they might have gotten out faster.

AW: You have been many hardcore matches; do you think the hardcore style has desensitized the wrestling fans?

KS: Yeah because not everyone can do it and promoters try and make everyone try to do it. The best hardcore wrestler is the man to my left (Abdullah the Butcher.) He made everything right. Abdullah and Terry Funk sell, even when they get hurt they would come back.

AW: There have been many recent deaths in professional wrestling including Brian Pillman, Rick Rude, Curt Hennig and most recently Miss Elizabeth. How does it feel for you to be sitting here and people younger than you are dying?

KS: It’s tough. All of them but Elizabeth I knew well. Brian was a dear friend. The wrestling business and the families lost out. We lost a great mind in Brian Pillman. Terry Funk once told me Brian gets it. He understood things. Brian once told me he was going out during an NFL game and handcuff himself to the goalpost. That would have been great publicity. Brian would have been a great booker. If he had lived, wrestling would have been on a different plane.

AW: We are sitting here at an IPW Hardcore show and you have worked for them before. What are your impressions of the fans, the company and its owner Ron Niemi?

KS: Ron is doing a great job, to keep a company alive in this day and age is great. The fans of IPW are like coming home. A kid came up to me and told me he has been watching me his whole life. I told him his folks were probably watching me the night he was conceived. This is the tail end for me and I realize that. I enjoy my relationship with the fan more these days.

AW: You mentioned Abdullah is a few seats away and please keep him over there (Sullivan laughs.) Do you have any comments on your multi-year feud and any comments on tonight’s war?

KS: I know what the match will be like, he will try and kick the sh#$ out of me. Abdullah is amazing. We all know how old Abdullah is, the gargoyles on the Notre Dame church were carved from his visage and that was 612 years ago. I don’t really know how old he is but he keeps going. He has always looked like a chocolate sundae melting. He is a great performer. If you put the names Abdullah the Butcher and Terry Funk on the marquee at Madison Square Garden as the main event of a show you would have a hard time finding a ticket. The thing is fans remember that guys Terry and Abdullah are real. You mentioned it; you’re hoping he stays over there. Abdullah carries that persona all over the world. For me, I was such a heel but I am there heel and somehow I become the babyface.

AW: These next three questions might be hard for you to answer. If you could pick one person, who was your favorite opponent or program to be in with?

KS: It would have to be Dusty or Hulk, closely followed by Abdullah and Terry.

AW: Who was your toughest or most interesting opponent?

KS: Buzz Sawyer was an interesting opponent. He was another person cut down early in life. He was hardcore but he was a wrestler. I didn’t get as many matches as I would have like with him.

AW: What would you consider your favorite match that you would like to be shown in a wrestling hall of fame?

KS: People ask me that and I have never looked back. (Baseball pitcher) Satchel Paige once said, “Don’t look back because something might be gaining on you.” But one night stands out. In Bayfront Center here in St. Pete I wrestled Dusty in a loser leaves town match and Santa Claus screwed Dusty. It was Jake Roberts dressed as Santa. Jake had sprayed chloroform on Dusty and the match ended that way. As we left the ring the fans chanted Fu#% Santa, like in Boston they chant Yankees Suck (Note I am wearing a NY Yankees hat as this interview is taking place.) I thought we got our point across that night.

AW: You recently opened a gym. What can you tell me about it?

KS: It is called Froggy’s Fitness and we are located in the Florida Keys in the town of Tavernier. At the grand opening I had Hulk Hogan and Bob Seger. It will be open for one year on December 22nd.

Thanks to Mr. Sullivan for not ripping my hat off my head and for sitting for this interview.

Alan Wojcik